I downloaded the Star Ocean video through XBL.. was impressive cut-scene, but didn't show any gameplay, which was a bit disappointing.

EDIT: The last three posts happened while I was typing this.

I still think the Wii is currently no better graphically than the PS2, I still think that. I compared Wild ARMs 5 because the level of graphics are similar despite the fact that based on everything you say the graphics in MG should be more than 2x as good (especially MG is a huge title whilst I bet before my post no one here knew what Wild ARMs 5 was), which they're not. The simplicity in the graphical style of MG alongside the use of many bright colours makes the appearance seem better, but I can't really see that much more detail in the game in comparison to WA5.[/quote]

Actually, I had heard of Wild ARMs before, I saw a review of it and recognised the hexagonal battle system.

Did you watch video review[/b] and check out some of the environments in the game.

I still can't understand how you can look at all this and claim that the Wii would offer [b]no improvement over the PS2 in any respects.

Admeister: glad to see someone does see it from my point of view.

And yet he still manages to distinguish the Wii from the PS2:

[quote author=admeister link=topic=15684.msg170150#msg170150 date=1213350872]More on topic, I think that you (for the most part) and Nick are right, the Wii is a perfectly good console which certainly has the power to top the PS2, and we've already seen this. Control schemes are variable (definitely a good thing), so there's not a lot to complain about, except lack of good games I guess.

Well, they purchase the food.

You guys have failed to prove to me that the Wii is heaps better than the PS2 graphically, I judge that, not you. I look forward to seeing if it changes, but for the time being no matter what you say what I've seen on screen and in screen shots doesn't say much.

Can we just agree to disagree, and maybe be sh*tty at each other until we get over it and realise we're adults, for now?

You have been given stats and screens and you refuse to see that you are basing your opinion on nothing of substance. Sounds a lot like religion. Well just like religion you have a right to believe what you want so I will agree to disagree with you but I still think you are delusional.

Well, they purchase the food.

You guys have failed to prove to me that the Wii is heaps better than the PS2 graphically, I judge that, not you. I look forward to seeing if it changes, but for the time being no matter what you say what I've seen on screen and in screen shots doesn't say much.

Can we just agree to disagree, and maybe be sh*tty at each other until we get over it and realise we're adults, for now?

Admeister: glad to see someone does see it from my point of view. I should say I'd still paly it if it came out on Wii, it would just make me sad.

Well Julz, I will agree with you on the fact that I would be at least a little disappointed if KH3 was announced for the Wii. I have to say I definitely prefer the PS2/PS3's controller for playing those sorts of games, rather than the Gamecube's one/classic controller. I'd certainly give motion controls a chance (they could indeed be good), but it would break the continuity of the series a little. Still, as long as they make the damn game, I don't really mind too much.

Batman: We get it, you don't like KH2.

The thing is, when prooven I can completely turn around.
[/quote]

Apparently you can't.

I'm not changing my ground, the argument is just pointless. I'm not going to agree with you.
[/quote]

[quote author=Julz link=topic=15684.msg170164#msg170164 date=1213354888]
[quote author=moodycj link=topic=15684.msg170156#msg170156 date=1213353049]
"that console just isn't right for the game" and "I just don't get why people think the Wii is a good platform choice for this game"
This sounds like you don't think the wii fulfils the target audience, whether or not it is how you meant it that is how it came across.

That says nothing about the target audience, you're just reading between lines and pulling out what you think I'm saying. I don't think it's right because I don't think it will make an improvement on the game as it currently stands on the PS2. I have a different opinion to everyone in this thread, obviously, and I don't care. That's how I feel and just because you're waving 25+ million people in my face doesn't make me think otherwise (especially when a lot of those people bought the Wii and have only played Wii Sports on it). If I followed thinking like that maybe I should join the 125 million obese Americans and gain 50kgs.

That is stupid they did not go an purchase obesity because they like being fat. I was talking about the 25+ million people who chose to by a wii cause they like playing games on it. Completely irrelevant.

"that console just isn't right for the game" and "I just don't get why people think the Wii is a good platform choice for this game"
This sounds like you don't think the wii fulfils the target audience, whether or not it is how you meant it that is how it came across.

That says nothing about the target audience, you're just reading between lines and pulling out what you think I'm saying. I don't think it's right because I don't think it will make an improvement on the game as it currently stands on the PS2. I have a different opinion to everyone in this thread, obviously, and I don't care. That's how I feel and just because you're waving 25+ million people in my face doesn't make me think otherwise (especially when a lot of those people bought the Wii and have only played Wii Sports on it). If I followed thinking like that maybe I should join the 125 million obese Americans and gain 50kgs.

I still think the Wii is currently no better graphically than the PS2, I still think that. I compared Wild ARMs 5 because the level of graphics are similar despite the fact that based on everything you say the graphics in MG should be more than 2x as good (especially MG is a huge title whilst I bet before my post no one here knew what Wild ARMs 5 was), which they're not. The simplicity in the graphical style of MG alongside the use of many bright colours makes the appearance seem better, but I can't really see that much more detail in the game in comparison to WA5.

I'm not changing my ground, the argument is just pointless. I'm not going to agree with you.

If KH3 is made on the Wii the series will be ruined, that console just isn't right for the game.

The series was ruined when KH2 rolled around. It's mostly just fan service for fangirls now.

Also saying a console isn't right for a game is ridiculous.

EDIT: turns out moody posted similar points at the same time i did.

They wouldn't make[/b] you use it, it would be included as an alternative option if they did it! Clearly you are a potential consumer of the game and clearly there are fans of the series that aren't five years old, so would you be disappointed if there was no motion sensing? I mean, my god, this argument doesn't even make sense.

You are saying that the Wii version would automatically be worse because they would no doubt include motion controls for the game. We are telling you that they have the ability to include multiple control schemes to allow everyone to play the game the way they want. I mean, this whole discussion is so friggin stupid because no game has even been announced, but from a "potential" standpoint, they could do the exact same controls on the Wii as you'd do on the PS3, so what the hell's the issue here?!

Moodycj: Also, I don't think God of War two is the best looking game on the PS2. The graphics were too dark and ugly. I think the game I posted above (Wild ARMs 5) looks better than God of War. It's crisper (I like having more shades of colour than drab in my games). In that respect what people think constitute good graphics in a close range group of games may be subjective.[/quote]

[b]Mario Galaxy[/b]? I mean, seriously?

[quote author=Julz link=topic=15684.msg170152#msg170152 date=1213351624]While the graphics on Metroid P 3 are (I must admit) good, they're still not close to 360 or PS3. You need to remember that I'm going to be disappointed with PS2 level graphics and want PS3. So even if MG = PS2 graphics or (if you personally think), greater than, it still means I'll be disappointed if KH3 is on Wii. With the Disney theme the capability to make awesome looking levels is there and I'd love to see them fully whipped out now that there are console that can take it to that new level. I think it's a waste not to take advantage of that with the themes in Kingdom Hearts.[/quote]

You've changed your argument. You began by comparing what the Wii could do with the PS2 games.

[quote]It probably will depend on what you liked about the Kingdom Hearts games in the first place as to how much the Wii will remove the experience given from the PS2.

Now you're saying that the Wii game won't look as good on the PS3, which we [b]never denied.

Here's the facts. You obviously enjoyed the games on the PS2. The Wii has more power and the potential for better graphics than that system (regardless of whether you feel that it has achieved that yet). You were immersed into the worlds of the PS2.

The Wii can offer everything the PS2 game did, and more. The graphics would be better. The controls will be either a) the same (using classic controller styles) or b) possibly better (depending on how the do motion controls - you might like them, you never know). Yes, the PS3 could do better graphics, but could some extra horsepower lend anything to the gameplay? More enemies on screen?

[quote]If KH3 is made on the Wii the series will be ruined, that console just isn't right for the game.

The simple truth is that Wii can do anything that the PS2 did. There is absolutely no basis to a statement like the one above. It's just completely fallacial.

Also, I never said that the Wii didn't fulfil the target audience, so don't pull arguments against me from your arse. I also play PS2 games on my 1080i widescreen inside my PS3, so I've seen them on HD.

Let's just hope they bring it out on both, then eeeveryone will be happy, k?

"that console just isn't right for the game" and "I just don't get why people think the Wii is a good platform choice for this game"
This sounds like you don't think the wii fulfils the target audience, whether or not it is how you meant it that is how it came across.

"Moodycj: Also, I don't think God of War two is the best looking game on the PS2. The graphics were too dark and ugly. I think the game I posted above (Wild ARMs 5) looks better than God of War. It's crisper (I like having more shades of colour than drab in my games). In that respect what people think constitute good graphics in a close range group of games may be subjective."
Doesn't matter what game you pick Galaxy and MP3 are still better, because the PS2 is not capable of making games that are that graphically good.

You have changed your ground since this started, you are now talking about the wii in relation to the graphics of the PS3 and 360. No one argues that claims that the wii can come close to that graphics wise. It is not logical to think that this means the series will be ruined though, the number of people who are buying wii's shows that people enjoy using them so clearly graphics isn't every thing.

But for the time being I'm annoyed at it. Let me be annoyed"
RJ has himself expressed annoyance at the direction the wii is taking. The fact is your claims have not been logical that is what he is getting at.

"nshady: if they make you use the classic controller it makes it kind of redundant, and unless a 2nd option then it won't happen and won't be recieved well because consumers will expect the games to utilise the motion sensing."
It will probably have both.

I grabbed a general pool of all the screen shots of Mario Galaxy and the pic you reposted above was an example of a not flattering PS2 pic, obviously the other two look much better (and are also in game images, the first is in battle special attack (cue face zoom) and the other just a dialogue sequence where it zooms in on the in game graphics). Plus, I don't mean have the other Wii pics nshady posted ignored, I just added a pool of better PS2 ones (than some nshady posted) with some worse Wii ones to show that it's easy to misrepresent, which is what happened. I've seen Mario Galaxy on screen, I've also seen kingdom hearts and Wild ARMs on screens and I still personally think MG does not look better, maybe equal, definitely not better.

I didn't mean to grab non-final game pics so that's not being bias. The second one was just put in there because it obviously looks so terrible because of poor image quality (note comments next to the images!) . I was trying to make a point about image selection. 

If they put effort into it, it could look better than PS2, but based on the games so far the difference will be minute unless Nintendo can't yet utilise their own machine properly.

nshady: if they make you use the classic controller it makes it kind of redundant, and unless a 2nd option then it won't happen and won't be recieved well because consumers will expect the games to utilise the motion sensing.

Moodycj: Also, I don't think God of War two is the best looking game on the PS2. The graphics were too dark and ugly. I think the game I posted above (Wild ARMs 5) looks better than God of War. It's crisper (I like having more shades of colour than drab in my games). In that respect what people think constitute good graphics in a close range group of games may be subjective.

While the graphics on Metroid P 3 are (I must admit) good, they're still not close to 360 or PS3. You need to remember that I'm going to be disappointed with PS2 level graphics and want PS3. So even if MG = PS2 graphics or (if you personally think), greater than, it still means I'll be disappointed if KH3 is on Wii. With the Disney theme the capability to make awesome looking levels is there and I'd love to see them fully whipped out now that there are console that can take it to that new level. I think it's a waste not to take advantage of that with the themes in Kingdom Hearts.

RJ: I do have some bias, but who doesn't? You can tell me straight that there isn't Nintendo bias oozing from this forum? The thing is, when prooven I can completely turn around. When I was younger (11) and I palyed FF7 and loved it and my brother told me Suikoden was better I got defensive and wouldn't accept it. Then I played Suikoden and this series is my favourite of all game franchises. If Konami release a Suikoden game on the Ngage you might see me buying that thing just to get to the game (Oh, yeah, I love my Suikoden). I also wasn't into the Xbox at the start (before it was released) due to Sony fanboys talking it down all the time but eventually decided to ignore them and found out it's great, and the 360 is great. The difference is I get expectations for Nintendo and get let down multiple times. I bought a gameboy colour and was so excited, only to find that some games on it (i.e. Pokemon) weren't in full colour! (Whilst the Lynx we have had since the early 90's has full colour). Then the Wii (or Revolution [I was actually looking forward to a GC comeback even in the early days]) comes along with all these new different features and manages to utterly disappoint in comparison to rival consoles. If they pick up their game my opinion might change, but for the time being I'm annoyed at it. Let me be annoyed, I have the right. The same right people have when their 360 RRODs. Don't feed me crap about who I am because of what I release on this forum, it's offensive.

Also, I never said that the Wii didn't fulfil the target audience, so don't pull arguments against me from your arse. I also play PS2 games on my 1080i widescreen inside my PS3, so I've seen them on HD.

Let's just hope they bring it out on both, then eeeveryone will be happy, k?

RJ: Haha, I was just joking about FFVII. Though it does look better than a fair few of the other PS1 games that were made around that time (not really going anywhere with this). I don't think it looked bad at the time, and it was the first 3D Final Fantasy. Anyway.

More on topic, I think that you (for the most part) and Nick are right, the Wii is a perfectly good console which certainly has the power to top the PS2, and we've already seen this. Control schemes are variable (definitely a good thing), so there's  not a lot to complain about, except lack of good games I guess.

Edit: What the? I only posted once! When I delete the double, they both disappear!

Well said, RJ.

Hey, here's an idea: When you compare screenshots, compare them using their full, native resolution (without upscaling or downscaling) without saving them in a file format like JPEGs that create artefacts and ruin picture quality.

How's that sound, you bunch of bickering pricks?

The native resolution for FFXI on PS1 is 320x240, for PS2 it is 640x480, and for Wii it is 480p (with anamorphic widescreen), which means it refreshes the whole picture which eliminates flickering.

Any argument that the Wii is incapable of producing graphics greater than that of the PS2 is merely the deranged rambling of an uninformed fanboy.

The reason games don't look as good is because a) developers don't care, b) rose coloured glasses, c) playing on HD makes older games look worse because older CRT TVs work like having full screen anti-aliasing and d) developer's don't try.

As for the control scheme, there is no reason they could not include the traditional control scheme for the Wii. In fact, plenty of traditional games on the Wii support the GCN and classic controller. RE4 and DBZ come to mind.

As for the claim that the Wii is not the right market for the series...well, you've got me stumped there. WHY ON EARTH would parents buy a game featuring Disney characters for their children to play on the Wii they already use for themselves? OF COURSE they would spend TWICE AS MUCH on a BRAND NEW CONSOLE just to play the same game with slightly prettier graphics that they don't even understand or appreciate? I mean, sure, you're a big fan of the series and obviously so well informed of the graphical capabilities of every console and all, but YOU THINK that PS3 is better suited to family-centric titles because you like it more.

(Of course, now you're going to go off about how KH is really deep and mature and special and deals with kids growing up and all that bullshit. So does fucking Power Rangers and the GI Joe cartoon. Moral at the end of every story. Doesn't make it them bloody Pulitzer prize winners, does it?)

You're a fangirl. End of story. You gave the Wii a chance, didn't like it. But isntead of being apathetic or simply not caring towards something you don't enjoy, you took the EXTRA effort to go right out and HATE it. Why? If it does nothing for you, then you shouldn't care either way. The obvious answer is that you're afraid of it, because you're afraid KH3 will go to Wii and not PS3 and you want it on PS3.

Desire causes suffering, now you're hating something because you don't get what you want, and wasting all your energy on a stupid internet message board crying because you'll have to use your arms to play a video game with Mickey FUCKING Mouse in it.

It's a personal preference. The aged market (older fans of Final Fantasy titles, younger fans of Disney) are well represented within the age bracket for the Wii. Sure, the fans who started to like Final Fantasy with VII on the Playstation might not like it, but hey, they're retards.

And whoever said FFVII still looks good to this day, you annoy me. Shut up. It looked horrible then, it looks horrible now. The only saving grace it had was the FMVs that made me realise that Tifa had boobs that weren't giant triangles that clipped through one another.

This thread was cathartic.

Julz, the point with the controllers is that they don't have to use the Wiimote[/b].

[b]They could implement any number of different configurations as to how you control it, including nunchuk (for analog stick), or even the Classic Controller.[/b]

Also, the first two Wii pictures aren't the final game, so they can be disregarded. I honestly don't know how you can look at this:

[img]http://www.gamepro.com/screens/115681/119828-2-2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img.hexus.net/v2/gaming/screenshots_wii/galaxy/galaxy2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/wildarms5/ss-003.jpg[/img]

and think the PS2 one looks better.

PS2 has a 294MHz CPU and a 147MHz GPU. Wii has a 729 MHz CPU and a 243 MHz GPU. There's just more power there. Honestly, if you booted up Mario Galaxy on your Wii, then booted up a PS2 game, and switched your cables back and forth, I bet you that none of the in-game footage on PS2 would reach the quality achieved in Mario Galaxy.

Please note that we're not saying that the game would look as good as the PS3, we're just pointing out that if Square-Enix put the same amount of effort they'd put into a PS3 sequel into the Wii, there's no way it would be worse than PS2.

I mean, honestly:

[b]this?

You complain about Nick posting low res shots and then you post some complete shockers. 
Graphically PS2 < GC and the wii is at worst assumed to be 2x as good as the GC. Both Mario Galaxy and MP3 look better than what is generally assumed to be the best looking game on the PS2 god of war 2. You saying that "I'm yet to see a Wii game that looks better than PS2 games I've played" indicates you have either not played Galaxy or MP3 or you are deluding yourself. You claim that you have offered proof when you were quick to dismiss Nicks pictures as being bias. The reason you are not seeing better graphics is yet is simply 3rd parties realizing that the wii is so popular they don't need to bother making really good graphics. I agree this is disappointing.

Regardless your argument that no wii game has surpassed the PS2 is nonsense.

You ruin the potential. You can also consider the meaning of ruin in my post above is in the same way that spilling a drop of wine ruins a tablecloth. Sure, you can cover it up and make it seem like it's just as good but if you look more closely you'll notice it's not.

I'm yet to see a Wii game that looks better than PS2 games I've played. Spider-Man 3 on Wii looks like something the PS1 could produce for example (okay, cheap shot, but meh. ).

Here are some other screens to prove that the titles on Wii aren't better than PS2 (at the moment, definitely).

PS2
[img]http://www.dignews.com/admin/screenshoot/wild_arms_5_rev_03.jpg[/img]
[img]http://a248.e.akamai.net/f/248/5462/2h/images.gamezone.com/screens/32/1/6/s32106_ps2_40.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/wildarms5/ss-003.jpg[/img]
and a rendered one, for fun:
[img]http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/4755520060203_110535_0_big.jpg[/img]

Wii:

[img]http://www.easyonlygames.com/glog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/super-mario-galaxy.jpg[/img]
[img]http://images.nintendolife.com/articles/2006/06/08/super_mario_galaxy_footage/attachment/large.jpg[/img] <--- what bad image quality reflects on graphical capabilities!!
[img]http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/42611520070816_223921_0_big.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img.hexus.net/v2/gaming/screenshots_wii/galaxy/galaxy2.jpg[/img] <-- this was the best screen shot (as far as how nice it looks) without taking rendered advertising pics.
[img width=800 height=438]http://files.nintendic.com/wii/super-mario-galaxy/screenshot-super-mario-galaxy5.jpg[/img]


Granted, they might (and should) get better on Wii, but considering the pictures above on PS2 are of a third party game (that isn't huge budget like KH or Mario games) Vs. first party huge budget on the Wii it's not terribly spectacular what we get from Mario Galaxy since PS2 is last generation and not as powerful as the Xbox1. I tried to get a mix of screenshots that were actually comparable. It's easy to get really nice shots of Wii games and bad shots of PS2 games to make an argument so I thought I'd repost.

Since Nintendo made the Wii they should be able to make graphics of high quality. Similarly, since the PS2 has similar graphical capabilities why are games coming out that look worse? Surely if developers have been able to make games to PS2 (for years!), 360 and PS3 quality already then making games to a higher Wii standard should be occuring. I'm not seeing it yet.

Nshady: I still not sold on the controllers, I've had frustration with them not responding in games (the pointing, shaking side of the control) and it's annoying considering that the controls are the main component of the console.

Well, at least she's conceded the point about the control scheme.

I still think the Wii will be a worse platform than the PS3 based on what I said.
[/quote]
You have now changed from wii will ruin the game to I think it would be better on PS3.

[quote author=Julz link=topic=15684.msg170120#msg170120 date=1213330192]
You can grab all the low quality pictures you want (those of FF9 don't represent the graphics at all while mine does) to try and prove the point against me but I expect each sequel to look better than the last and after getting used to 360 and PS3 level graphics the Wii doesn't cut it.

Yours was still not as good as Nicks wii pics, look at it. As too getting used to PS3 and 360 levels, the PC has been at that level and above for years yet people still enjoyed their PS2. The sequel would look better on the wii than it did on the PS2. Your opinion that the graphics don't cut it anymore isn't the opinion of 25+ million people world wide.

I still think the Wii will be a worse platform than the PS3 based on what I said. You can grab all the low quality pictures you want (those of FF9 don't represent the graphics at all while mine does) to try and prove the point against me but I expect each sequel to look better than the last and after getting used to 360 and PS3 level graphics the Wii doesn't cut it. Hell, if they released KH3 on PS2 I'd be pissed off for the same reasons.

I think this is possibly our most popular article yet. I agree with you Nick, while the Wii has less power than the PS3 and 360, it doesn't mean it will have bad looking games. Hell, the later PS2 games still look great to me, so I don't have any particular issues with the Wii, which can do ever better. So while the PS3 and 360 might be well ahead in the graphical area, the Wii is almost completely different.

You can't take FF7 graphics as the PS1, that's when they first decided to use 3D in RPGs (other than Wild ARMs before it). I said the later titles, so FF9 would have been an applicable choice.[/quote]

[img]http://www.snesclassics.com/history/images/full/FF9.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.gamethink.net/IMG/jpg/final_fantasy_ix_playstation_2000_chocobo.jpg[/img]

Yay, FFIX!

the graphics on the Wii (that I have seen so far) are comparable to the graphics during the final years of the PS1 and the early titles on the PS2[/quote]

Yes, they could make a better looking game on the PS3 than the Wii. That is obvious. But saying that a game on the Wii would look worse than the games that were available on the PS2 is simply ridiculous. The Gamecube had better graphics than the PS2 did, and, as moody rightfully pointed out, even if the Wii is two Gamecubes taped together, it would still have the power to make better looking games than the PS2. Your argument is illogical.

[quote]Wii’s abilities are so low in this area that you won’t be able to immerse yourself in the gaming experience as much.[/quote]

So... did you have trouble immersing yourself in the world of the previous games when they were on PS2?

[quote]Square has always been at the forefront of amazingly good graphics[/quote]

They have been at the forefront of impressive cutscenes, at least.

[quote]I agree the controls work fine with games specifically targeted for this console, but I just don't think [Kingdom Hearts] would work nearly as well on the Wii

The fact is that there are any number of ways in which the controls could work on the system - including through the use of a traditional controller! There's simply no reason why this should be any kind of barrier. Hell, in terms of character management, look to Marvel: Ultimate Alliance. It was a launch title and it managed to pull of controlling multiple characters at once.

[img]http://ps2.kioshi.org/wp-content/uploads/kingdom_hearts_1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://media.gamespy.com/columns/image/article/693/693430/final-fantasy-x-feature_1143503453.jpg[/img]

Mmm... look at them smooth outlines. And the textures!

[quote]The graphical inferiority of the Wii isn’t so obvious with most of the games on the console (especially first party) because most are designed to be “cutesy” where the style involves less detail and so you can get away with this.

[img]http://www.gamepro.com/screens/115681/119828-2-2.jpg[/img]

Oh, the inferiority! This is a non-cutesy Wii game. It looks considerably better than anything the PS2 could pull off, and, in my opinion, holds up stylistically to what I've seen on the PS3.

Batman: KH2 > you. Nobody disses that game while I'm around.

KH2? No.

KH1 maybe.

You had 2 complaints to support this statement, "If KH3 is made on the Wii the series will be ruined, that console just isn't right for the game."

"This isn't a game that can be improved on the Wii." This was your claim when refering to the graphics. The pictures Nick showed are still better than the one you just posted and it is well know that the wii and even the GC is capable of better graphics than the PS2. So clearly it can be improved graphics wise if not as much as it would the PS3/Xbox. This shows that your 1st complaint is either misinformed or just wrong.

Your second was "adding gimmicky, quite possibly annoying controls into the game." and you admit "I agree the controls work fine with games specifically targeted for this console". In what way was the MP series more targeted at the wii than KH. Both were made before the wii existed. There is no reason to assume that the controls would be worse. I personally can't think of games I have liked less because of the wiimote, maybe you haven't played enough wii games.

You claim your hate is logical but the arguments that stem from it are not.

"I just don't get why people think the Wii is a good platform choice for this game."
Chances are it is
a) Because they own a wii and like the game
b) Unlike you they enjoy the wiimote
c) Hate PS3 just as you hate the wii
I am sure there are other reasons

You can't take FF7 graphics as the PS1, that's when they first decided to use 3D in RPGs (other than Wild ARMs before it). I said the later titles, so FF9 would have been an applicable choice.

[img]http://www.jdw.ca/images/ff9-bat.jpg[/img]

Notice how the images you got from the PS2 have:

A) More smooth outlines
B) More texture

And even if the Wii can (now) get graphics to the PS2 level, that's still a massive step below 360 and PS3.

The hate doesn't blind me because I gave the console a chance and it did nothing for me. I can hate something and hate it with a logical mindset, it's not that hard. Plus I only really came to the conclusion that I hate the Wii when making that post. I'm also not bitter, I just don't get why people think the Wii is a good platform choice for this game.

I also don't think change is bad, but it depends on what the change is based on and how the change can work. I don't think the Wii is the right move. I agree the controls work fine with games specifically targeted for this console often, but I just don't think it would work nearly as well on the Wii as it would on the PS3 (or 360 although that will never happen).

Nice picture choices Nick. FFVII is still looking good! I definitely agree with what you're saying. Some of the earlier Wii games were certainly disappointing graphically, but the standard has improved, and is at least as good as the PS2, better in a fair few cases. One problem with your post is that you only posted pics from 1st party Wii games though...

Batman: KH2 > you. Nobody disses that game while I'm around.

Yeah, your graphics arguments are not logical. The wii is clearly miles ahead of the PS1. The PS2 was the weakest graphically last gen, so if the wii is 2 duct taped GC's and as you claim"Square has always been at the forefront of amazingly good graphics" then they will have no trouble getting the best out of the wii graphically.

Your controller argument while potentially logical, is in my opinion also kind of silly. You don't want change? All games change some thats how they improve, the controls improved MP3. Many games have been done well this gen with the wiimote. "I for one don’t look forward to the idea of how I’m going to coordinate 3 characters in battle using a Wii mote and nun-chuck". Why? it will be the same as you did on the PS, seriously you will select with the nunchuck and A button. As far as controlling more than one unit BWii did it ok and you had heaps more than 3.

I really couldn't care less about this game but if as you admit you hate the wii it seems like you are letting that hate blind you. You have serious misconceptions about the capabilities of the wii and the level of difficulty of the wiimote. You seem bitter that your personal preference is not that of the majority. I understand you want it on the PS3 but you are making ridiculous and untrue claims about the wii ruining the game. While I can't understand your hatred for a console this is the only reason you don't want it on the wii.

Kingdom Hearts hasn't been good since the first.

You're kidding, right? PS1?

[img]http://www.gamethink.net/IMG/jpg/playstation_Final_Fantasy_VII-Combat.jpg[/img]

PS2?

[img]http://ps2.kioshi.org/wp-content/uploads/kingdom_hearts_1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://media.gamespy.com/columns/image/article/693/693430/final-fantasy-x-feature_1143503453.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.el33tonline.com/images/cache/941.jpg[/img]

Wii:

[img]http://weeklygeekshow.com/img/106129-1-1.jpg[/img]
[img width=800 height=450]http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/732/732719/super-mario-galaxy-20060914080415034.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.gamepro.com/screens/115681/119828-2-2.jpg[/img]

Let's keep things in perspective here.

Your controller worries are basically invalid because a) there's no reason why they need to change the battle mechanics unless they wanted to, and b) they could easily allow for multiple control setups to allow for customisation and the various controllers.

Though I see what you're saying about cutesy models, and the Wii's inability to pull off such detailed, gritty characters:

[img]http://gennady619.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/20060426-screen-kingdomhearts21.jpg[/img]

It probably will depend on what you liked about the Kingdom Hearts games in the first place as to how much the Wii will remove the experience given from the PS2.

Here are a few I’m expecting:

Two of the most lasting things in my mind from Kingdom Hearts are the fantastically designed worlds and the fantastic music (thankyou Yoko Shimomura and Utada Hikaru). Okay, so the Wii can support Surround sound, it's not optical though.

Mainly, the graphics on the Wii (that I have seen so far) are comparable to the graphics during the final years of the PS1 and the early titles on the PS2, let alone what is currently whipped up on PS2 and not even close to the gorgeous environments they could spin using the engine of the PS3. While graphics are often not as important as many other components in a video game the Wii’s abilities are so low in this area that you won’t be able to immerse yourself in the gaming experience as much. The graphical inferiority of the Wii isn’t so obvious with most of the games on the console (especially first party) because most are designed to be “cutesy” where the style[/i] involves less detail and so you can get away with this. This doesn’t apply to Kingdom Hearts and considering that Square has always been at the forefront of amazingly good graphics it seems like a waste, especially when the series is already so established at looking so awesomely fantastic.

In addition, I don’t think that the Wii mote will make the game more fun or ‘just as fun’; I think it will just make it a pain in the arse. They’ll have to change the whole battle system just for this sequel to suit the mechanics of the Wii-mote. This requires more effort and chances are it will make the game frustrating for return players who were used to the way the game played on the PS2 and even PSP (when game series have changed platforms in the past, i.e. SNES to PSX (FF series) the controls are still generally the same so if changes are made they are minor. You also find that people don’t always like the battle system being messed with and huge changes that are made, not due to choices particularly based on making it better but on a controller system change will leave people annoyed. I for one don’t look forward to the idea of how I’m going to coordinate 3 characters in battle using a Wii mote and nun-chuck).
The case would be different if it was a stand-alone title, but it’s unlikely to be. They might go the way of the Wii because more people already have them but a lot of people will buy a PS3 to get their hands on Metal Gear Solid 4 and a lot of people will buy a PS3 to get their hands on Kingdom Hearts 3. Either way, apart from adding gimmicky, quite possibly annoying controls into the game all the Wii has to offer to the player is extra sh*tty graphics. This isn't a game that can be improved on the Wii.


I have to say that I now personally really HATE (yes, thems strong words) the Wii. This has no precedent on Nintendo, or the fact that I grew up with Atari, Sega and Sony, but the fact that this console is so behind the 360 and PS3 as far as the incorporated technology that I don’t think it should even be considered as a console of the current generation (or “next generation” as some people [i]still call it). I would gladly throw David's out the window and consider it not any more a waste of money than when it was first purchased.

I agree with Nick, there are heaps of choices and you don't have to have the pointer select anything unless it is easier that way. What do you mean by moving around all the time? Don't most games involve moving?

I am more interested in how the wii will ruin Kingdom Hearts.

It could be awesome. There's a few potential ways you could do it. Big onscreen buttons for attacks. Or you could wave in a particular direction (up, down, left, right) to pick one. Or you just use the nunchuk and the Wiimote for button presses. Or you enable the classic controller/gamecube controller.

Plenty of options - the best would include all, but even with just a nunchuk it would work fine, I think.

I would have thought the wii controller would actually be a pain for just a standard RPG game.. moving around all the time, and constant battles.

With the wii, they'd have to play around trying to create some control scheme that would be adapted for the Wii. It worked for Zelda, but they sort of had that in mind.

They will go where the money is. Once upon a time they used to make heaps of games for Nintendo consoles. KH3 will be on the console(s) they think it will sell the most.

KH3 will probably be on either Wii or PS3 as there are more of those in Japan than the 360. If KH3 is made on the Wii the series will be ruined, that console just isn't right for the game. That's why I'm rooting for the PS3 on this one.

TBH I don't care where it goes but I would like to hear why you think it would ruin the series.

They will go where the money is. Once upon a time they used to make heaps of games for Nintendo consoles. KH3 will be on the console(s) they think it will sell the most.

KH3 will probably be on either Wii or PS3 as there are more of those in Japan than the 360. If KH3 is made on the Wii the series will be ruined, that console just isn't right for the game. That's why I'm rooting for the PS3 on this one.

It's nice to see that Square-Enix haven't forgotten about PS3 and PSP owners, and seem set to show new media/release new info regarding all of these titles. Stay tuned.

I'm kind of annoyed that none of the Kingdom Hearts games are on a worthwhile platform. I'll be able the play the DS version, but it seems like a waste on that.

Well, I intend to play both of the portable Kingdom Hearts games, and I'm looking forward to it. As for KH3, we won't be seeing that any time soon, not before FFXIII is done.

It's nice to see that Square-Enix haven't forgotten about PS3 and PSP owners, and seem set to show new media/release new info regarding all of these titles. Stay tuned.

If they forgot about the Playstation 3 that would be blasphemy since they've been making heaps of exclusive games for the Sony consoles for over 10 years. I'm looking forward to their continued commitment.

They will go where the money is. Once upon a time they used to make heaps of games for Nintendo consoles. KH3 will be on the console(s) they think it will sell the most.

It's nice to see that Square-Enix haven't forgotten about PS3 and PSP owners, and seem set to show new media/release new info regarding all of these titles. Stay tuned.

If they forgot about the Playstation 3 that would be blasphemy since they've been making heaps of exclusive games for the Sony consoles for over 10 years. I'm looking forward to their continued commitment.

I'm kind of annoyed that none of the Kingdom Hearts games are on a worthwhile platform. I'll be able the play the DS version, but it seems like a waste on that. If they make a KH3 it should be on PS3 or die.

Hey, at least it's original.

That DS game has a stupid name.