I am really sorry about your brother.

Thank you but to be completely honest I'm still very,very peed off & dissapointed regarding the circumstances into his death and probably will be for a while yet. Not only his funeral that I'm still trying to arrange because my sister(who I hope rots in Hell) refuses to take any kind of responsibility as well,but I've also had to give the police who are investigating a recorded statement which will be  used for a coroner's hearing,I've had to run around taking care of all of his personal belongings etc. etc. & basically all of the same crap over again after I had no choice but to do it all for my mum as well when she passed away a year and a half ago. Bloody bulls**t  is my honest opinion though atm.  >   

You seem to have had a really rough few years. I hope that soon things improve for you. Sorry to hear about your brother passing away too.

I am really sorry about your brother.

Thank you but to be completely honest I'm still very,very peed off & dissapointed regarding the circumstances into his death and probably will be for a while yet. Not only his funeral that I'm still trying to arrange because my sister(who I hope rots in Hell) refuses to take any kind of responsibility as well,but I've also had to give the police who are investigating a recorded statement which will be  used for a coroner's hearing,I've had to run around taking care of all of his personal belongings etc. etc. & basically all of the same crap over again after I had no choice but to do it all for my mum as well when she passed away a year and a half ago. Bloody bulls**t  is my honest opinion though atm.  >   

1. nshady is in Germany
2. I moderate Xbox.com
3. I've been moderating these forums since before nshady knew what GameBiz was..

For the 3rd time, back on topic now? FFXIII on 360! No reason to buy a PS3!! Those were my assistant manager's words, not mine.. he really hates PS3

I'm back, bitches!

Hmm, that's a valid point, but I still think by the end there would have been more people who had the system as a casual player than as a hardcore gamer.

there is absolutely no doubt that the PS2 was the casual gamer system. I use casual gamer in its traditional sense as someone who plays only casually, doesn't follow the industry closely, not in the new 'brain age' meaning. And yet, the Final Fantasy games prospered on the system.
[/quote]

That's a pretty useless statement considering how many PS2s have been sold. Any game could prosper on PS2 because of its massive user base. I'm not saying FF is hardcore or whatever the argument is about, but the most hardcore of all hardcore games could still sell well on PS2 without any casual gamers touching it.

[quote author=Batman link=topic=15866.msg171553#msg171553 date=1216361531]
You two just generally happen to be wrong on many occasions. Your gender has nothing to do with it.

lol.. /agree [color=#FDEEF4]especially dash lolololol[/color]

If all you guys want to do is bash me personally for every opinion I make you need to grow up and stop replying to me/quoting me. I don't like you.
[/quote]

Don't worry Julz I just guess that there are certain people on here who have a personal problem with females in general considering that it's usually us two who tend to cop the bulls**t off them. Most of my friends(including males) however think that they are a bit of a joke and we usually have great fun in putting them down amongst ourselves with things that I wouldn't even be game to repeat on here.
Just for the record I've not logged in as much as I usually do lately as I've been too busy trying to organise my brother's funeral thanks to my sister but when I do get the time to be even bothered to log in as often again,I just hope that they bring it on even more because I'll be ready for it and I'm the type of person who doesn't give up that easily. 

You two just generally happen to be wrong on many occasions. Your gender has nothing to do with it.

[quote author=Rendar link=topic=15866.msg171535#msg171535 date=1216348246]
OMG YOU PPL ARE A BUNCH OF F.U.C.K.I.N.G TROLLS AND FORUMS FLAMERS
BATMAN YOUR NOTHING BUT DISGRUNTLED PEDOPHILE, YOU NEED TO DIE

NOW F.U.C.K.I.N.G BAN ME

I don't think arguing and reasoning your opinions is trolling so much as it is... arguing and reasoning your opinions.

My nothing but disgruntled pedophile?

Rendar is a potty mouth.......

I think the difference between hardcore and casual gamers is time playing and money spent on gaming not what games and consoles they use........

If all you guys want to do is bash me personally for every opinion I make you need to grow up and stop replying to me/quoting me. I don't like you.

Don't worry Julz I just guess that there are certain people on here who have a personal problem with females in general considering that it's usually us two who tend to cop the bulls**t off them. Most of my friends(including males) however think that they are a bit of a joke and we usually have great fun in putting them down amongst ourselves with things that I wouldn't even be game to repeat on here.
Just for the record I've not logged in as much as I usually do lately as I've been too busy trying to organise my brother's funeral thanks to my sister but when I do get the time to be even bothered to log in as often again,I just hope that they bring it on even more because I'll be ready for it and I'm the type of person who doesn't give up that easily. 

What has being female got to do with anything? The reason you feel you get crap is because you take points of disagreement personally. Just because someone disagrees with your opinion on what is a casual game doesn't mean they are attacking you personally. Try and enjoy the debate thats what forums are for.

I am really sorry about your brother.

OMG YOU PPL ARE A BUNCH OF F.U.C.K.I.N.G TROLLS AND FORUMS FLAMERS
BATMAN YOUR NOTHING BUT DISGRUNTLED PEDOPHILE, YOU NEED TO DIE

NOW F.U.C.K.I.N.G BAN ME

If all you guys want to do is bash me personally for every opinion I make you need to grow up and stop replying to me/quoting me. I don't like you.

Don't worry Julz I just guess that there are certain people on here who have a personal problem with females in general considering that it's usually us two who tend to cop the bulls**t off them. Most of my friends(including males) however think that they are a bit of a joke and we usually have great fun in putting them down amongst ourselves with things that I wouldn't even be game to repeat on here.
Just for the record I've not logged in as much as I usually do lately as I've been too busy trying to organise my brother's funeral thanks to my sister but when I do get the time to be even bothered to log in as often again,I just hope that they bring it on even more because I'll be ready for it and I'm the type of person who doesn't give up that easily. 

Those were my assistant manager's words, not mine.. he really hates PS3

Why? Any particular reason?

1. nshady is in Germany
2. I moderate Xbox.com
3. I've been moderating these forums since before nshady knew what GameBiz was..

For the 3rd time, back on topic now? FFXIII on 360! No reason to buy a PS3!! Those were my assistant manager's words, not mine.. he really hates PS3

Calm down children, this thread is about FFXIII coming to 360, not about who plays FF and why.

How often do we stay on track? Thats pretty much nshady's job splitting threads to make what we are talking about relevant.

Calm down children, this thread is about FFXIII coming to 360, not about who plays FF and why.

Batman: Yes, I do like JRPGs. And the skill required to complete something also goes hand-in-hand with how long it takes to progress.

I can finish Ninja Gaiden on the NES in under an hour with no continues. Same for Contra.

By your logic, these games requires absolutely no skills whatsoever.

Meanwhile, if I am playing an RPG, with half the gametime as cutscenes and story, then a forty hour game with fort hours of cut scenes is suddenly 80 hours worth of hardness? And requires 80 hours worth of skill to beat?

I'm sorry, but when I can grind for fifty levels to defeat a boss instead of coming up with better builds for my characters and a stronger strategy to take them down, it's not about skill. It's about how much time you're willing to put in to the game to see the story progress.

Now you can take this as a personal attack, or you can take this as a rebuttle.

Calm down children, this thread is about FFXIII coming to 360, not about who plays FF and why.

I might actually play this one if I have time. I had a bit of fun in Lost Odyssey and I know FFXIII will be sitting on the shelf when Julz buys it, so yeah, might give it a try.

You know that pokemon is a turn based JRPG right?
[/quote]

Yes, I have played them. But the only multiplayer is that when two people finish it, on different consoles, they can battle their pokemon. The multiplayer isn't incorporated into the full game and you need to progress through the game to get to the point where you can play MP. To me that isn't real MP, there's no co-op, people can't just come around and play together, etc. like in other RPGs which allow multiplayer. Plus Pokemon is completely different from the standard JRPG as far as character and party dynamics so it's not really a very good comparison to make a point with.

Batman: Yes, I do like JRPGs. And the skill required to complete something also goes hand-in-hand with how long it takes to progress. RPGs take AGES to finish and turn-based RPGs are tedious, I just don't think that qualifies as a CASUAL GAME. Yes, some casual gamers may like it, but considering 360 has plenty of casual gamers as well as fans of the series I don't see how my statement that positioning it for the consoles that aren't the Wii is incorrect. This is MY OPINION. If all you guys want to do is bash me personally for every opinion I make you need to grow up and stop replying to me/quoting me. I don't like you.
[/quote]

OH GOD THE QUOTES

Quotes are useful when you're referring to a specific point that may have been overlooked, or for clarity of discussion. Here is an example.

[quote author=Julz link=topic=15866.msg171464#msg171464 date=1216176733]the FF series is not designed for casual gamers so they're obviously looking at the other two platforms as being more appropriate.

[quote author=nshady link=topic=15866.msg171488#msg171488 date=1216237933]The PS2 was the casual gamers' system before the Wii, and of course FF completely failed on that console, right?

This was the original catalyst for the discussion, which has been overlooked. You could call the Gamecube the kiddy system, but in terms of market penetration there is absolutely no doubt that the PS2 was the casual gamer system. I use casual gamer in its traditional sense as someone who plays only casually, doesn't follow the industry closely, not in the new 'brain age' meaning. And yet, the Final Fantasy games prospered on the system.

Incidentally, there are plenty of parallels between the early FF games and Pokemon. I don't get why you consider the fighting styles so different. The only twist is having to use an item at the end to add the monster to your party (which was adapted in these games anyway). Yes, the story isn't there, but fundamentally it's very similar.

You know that pokemon is a turn based JRPG right?

Yes, I have played them. But the only multiplayer is that when two people finish it, on different consoles, they can battle their pokemon. The multiplayer isn't incorporated into the full game and you need to progress through the game to get to the point where you can play MP. To me that isn't real MP, there's no co-op, people can't just come around and play together, etc. like in other RPGs which allow multiplayer. Plus Pokemon is completely different from the standard JRPG as far as character and party dynamics so it's not really a very good comparison to make a point with.

You don't have to finish the game to use the multilayer, at least you didn't in red/blue silver/gold. You only need to get like 20% into the game. Plus lots of games require different consoles to use multilayer now days. It is silly to try and use it's genre to say it is not casual, a game can be casual regardless of genre.

As to the last bit this is a discussion forum you state your opinion and we state ours and we discuss where we differ. You can't take it personally. I personally don't care weather or not you like me but if you want to put you opinion out there you can't complain when people disagree with you.

Batman: Yes, I do like JRPGs. And the skill required to complete something also goes hand-in-hand with how long it takes to progress.

No it doesn't. Rest is void because of this false statement.

This is MY OPINION. If you can't handle it, don't read it.

You know that pokemon is a turn based JRPG right?

Yes, I have played them. But the only multiplayer is that when two people finish it, on different consoles, they can battle their pokemon. The multiplayer isn't incorporated into the full game and you need to progress through the game to get to the point where you can play MP. To me that isn't real MP, there's no co-op, people can't just come around and play together, etc. like in other RPGs which allow multiplayer. Plus Pokemon is completely different from the standard JRPG as far as character and party dynamics so it's not really a very good comparison to make a point with.

Batman: Yes, I do like JRPGs. And the skill required to complete something also goes hand-in-hand with how long it takes to progress. RPGs take AGES to finish and turn-based RPGs are tedious, I just don't think that qualifies as a CASUAL GAME. Yes, some casual gamers may like it, but considering 360 has plenty of casual gamers as well as fans of the series I don't see how my statement that positioning it for the consoles that aren't the Wii is incorrect. This is MY OPINION. If all you guys want to do is bash me personally for every opinion I make you need to grow up and stop replying to me/quoting me. I don't like you.

[quote author=Julz link=topic=15866.msg171464#msg171464 date=1216176733]
the FF series is not designed for casual gamers
[/quote]
Hahahahaha

Oh wow. I just spat my batmilk everywhere.

No RPGs are really designed for casual gamers as they:

A) Take a long time to complete: requiring commitment
B) There is no multi-player mode
C)Game-play is not in depth or highly varied

Plus, when I consider the FF series I'm talking about those with ONLY Final Fantasy in their names, not FF chronicles. A lot of the FF games on DS are just remakes anyway, so they don't properly count.

I personally think both yours and nshady's statements are stupid.

RJG, gth.

By your logic, a shovelware title for Wii (a console you heavily believe is casual oriented) could be considered NON-casual because:
Take a long time to complete: requiring commitment
There is no multi-player mode
Game-play is not in depth or highly varied

I hate it to break it to you, but you are an jRPG fangirl. Sure they can be great, but they aren't HARDCORE GAMES FOR HARDCORE PEOPLE. In most cases, zero skill is required.

Oh, and casual does not equal child. Get your facts straight.

I personally think your statements are stupid.

You know that pokemon is a turn based JRPG right?

[quote author=Batman link=topic=15866.msg171489#msg171489 date=1216246900]
[quote author=Julz link=topic=15866.msg171464#msg171464 date=1216176733]
the FF series is not designed for casual gamers
[/quote]
Hahahahaha

Oh wow. I just spat my batmilk everywhere.
[/quote]

No RPGs are really designed for casual gamers as they:

A) Take a long time to complete: requiring commitment
B) There is no multi-player mode
C)Game-play is not in depth or highly varied

Plus, when I consider the FF series I'm talking about those with ONLY Final Fantasy in their names, not FF chronicles. A lot of the FF games on DS are just remakes anyway, so they don't properly count.

I personally think both yours and nshady's statements are stupid.

RJG, gth.

RPG's can have multiplayer and they can be for casual players. Pokemon.

There are a few exclusions, but FF is not one of them. I also should have been more clear with the "no multiplayer statement". Turn-based JRPGs can't have proper multiplayer, it doesn't work.

Plus the difference between Pokemon and FF is also the target audience and the different emphasises. For e.g. Pokemon is mainly aimed at younger kids and there is next to no storyline. FF is aimed at teens+ and there is a LOT of emphasis on the story. These result in different moods for the game and ultimately make FF a less casual game.

Edit: also, the themes in the storylines for FF are more serious than other RPGs.

[quote author=Julz link=topic=15866.msg171464#msg171464 date=1216176733]
the FF series is not designed for casual gamers
[/quote]
Hahahahaha

Oh wow. I just spat my batmilk everywhere.

No RPGs are really designed for casual gamers as they:

A) Take a long time to complete: requiring commitment
B) There is no multi-player mode
C)Game-play is not in depth or highly varied

Plus, when I consider the FF series I'm talking about those with ONLY Final Fantasy in their names, not FF chronicles. A lot of the FF games on DS are just remakes anyway, so they don't properly count.

I personally think both yours and nshady's statements are stupid.

RJG, gth.

RPG's can have multiplayer and they can be for casual players. Pokemon.

the FF series is not designed for casual gamers

Hahahahaha

Oh wow. I just spat my batmilk everywhere.

No RPGs are really designed for casual gamers as they:

A) Take a long time to complete: requiring commitment
B) There is no multi-player mode
C)Game-play is not in depth or highly varied

Plus, when I consider the FF series I'm talking about those with ONLY Final Fantasy in their names, not FF chronicles. A lot of the FF games on DS are just remakes anyway, so they don't properly count.

I personally think both yours and nshady's statements are stupid.

RJG, gth.

the FF series is not designed for casual gamers

Hahahahaha

Oh wow. I just spat my batmilk everywhere.

I caught your batmilk in my mouth, and then I also spat your batmilk everywhere.

Not for casuals. FF is only hardcore if you're an FF fanboy. I have more respect for WOW addicts than FFanboys.

That's only 2 for Wii??

There are about 4 for 360 at the moment.

the FF series is not designed for casual gamers

Hahahahaha

Oh wow. I just spat my batmilk everywhere.

The DS is for casual gamers... go and count how many FF games are on DS. The PS2 was the casual gamers' system before the Wii, and of course FF completely failed on that console, right?

Your point is stupid.

I'm glad this is coming to 360, because it's always nice for games to accessible to as many people as possible. Square-Enix is working on FF: Crystal Chronicles, and just put out a WiiWare FF spinoff too. There are more FF games coming to the Wii than the 360 or PS3.

Well I'm not surprised they picked the 360 and PS3 over the Wii. The Wii is aimed at casual gamers, the FF series is not designed for casual gamers so they're obviously looking at the other two platforms as being more appropriate. I'm glad they've made their choice as any game they make for the 360 or PS3 I'm likely to buy.

Good to see they're supporting the 360, they've shown with their other recent title announcements that it will be an equal platform for them.

Where does that leave Wii? not very highly, by the look of Square-Enix position so far.

I'm glad they started making it on the PS3. I'm sick of all the 360 ports for the PS3 when a game is made for both consoles. I'll probably buy this on PS3.